Second Chance Birds

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If you must cripple a creature to keep it, perhaps you should reconsider its suitability as a pet.
We must never forget the one who inspired me... my precious Baby!

Not bird on human, but bird on bird bites...

When Xy received his bite, infection was a major concern partially because a lot of skin was disrupted and partially because the biter had just finished a nice bowl of warm, mushy food.

There is potential there, but since most people feed their birds dry foods (seeds, pellets) and since most birds have impecable grooming habits and wipe all the food off their beak when they do get mushy food I'd have to assume with a few exceptions that it's fairly low risk.

Now, all that said... go look at the underside of a cockatoo's upper beak. There are grooves there that help them grind their food... think about what gets stuck in there, now think about that entering your skin. Again, the potential is there.

I've head about many people getting tetanus shots after a bird bite and that's not necessary, but a simple bacterial infection? It could happen. The reason dog and cat bites are so bad is because of bacteria and enzymes present in their mouths along with the fact that they have very wet mouth. The saliva (carrying bacteria and enzymes) coats all the teeth and rolls around in there. When you get bit, the nasties are driven deep into your tissues. So, there you go... that's why bird bites can be a risk but aren't nearly as bad as other bites that people frequently get.

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Deuce & Bella Pepper Charlie & Hoppy Xylon The Meep Meeps X 9

Guess this is something that I just haven't thought about. Just automatic to get the peroxide and the neosporin out...
Would definitely like to know more...

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Cockatoos are not obedient. No to a Cockatoo means try again later.

"Some say they don't believe that angels can be seen or heard.
What a shame, such blindness. What a pity, such deafness. When the Song of songs abounds and Heaven's flyers are all around only thinly disguised as birds"

Unseen they suffer ~ Unheard they cry ~ In agony they linger ~ In loneliness they die

ME!! Frosty's bites and scratches burn like heck! Even the tiny ones. Happy's hurt, but never burn. And, TG for Crazy Glue.

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If you must cripple a creature to keep it, perhaps you should reconsider its suitability as a pet.
We must never forget the one who inspired me... my precious Baby!

I've only been scratched by Caesar and boy does it burn. So far no bites from any of them (knock on wood).

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Caesar Cleo Elby Harley Malibu Tweet


It is not only fine feathers that make fine birds.
Aesop

Ei yi yi!!! Yes, those bites do burn, baby burn!!! I always figured it was the powder coupled with those wicked serrations on the underside of their upper beak. AG's produce a similar powder, but their beaks aren't so serrated and their bites don't burn so much either.

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Deuce & Bella Pepper Charlie & Hoppy Xylon The Meep Meeps X 9

I’m not sure about the bacterial count in birds’ mouths except whenever we do swabbings they come up clean unless a bird is very sick. Even the enzyme type bacteria are not present in birds like they are in mammals.
I’ve been bitten by birds (and I’m not specifying types of birds) way too many times to count and I have never had an infection from a bite. I have, however, gotten infections from the nails punctures. The talons and nails are loaded with bacteria.

Beaks and nails are razor sharp leaving a slice (even a small slice with a scratch). That may be why they burn so badly. Paper cuts also burn like heck.

One thing I do want to mention is the old remedy of using peroxide on wounds is not good. Although Hydrogen Peroxide may be a good cleanser because its foaming action can lift debris, it tends to block the circulatory system to the wound. Wounds drenched in peroxide tend to heal slower and have more scarring. Hydrogen Peroxide is excellent though at removing blood and can be used to wash dried blood from your hands and clothing.

Antiseptics can also be damaging. Anything strong enough to kill bacteria is also caustic enough to destroy tissue. The best way to deal with bacteria is to dilute and flush it away, not kill it.

If you are bitten (or for any type of wound) after bleeding has been stopped, wounds can be irrigated with saline solution or sterile water to remove dirt or debris. A fine stream of fluid under pressure works better in removing bacteria and debris than just pouring solution over the wound. Use a bulb syringe or large syringe and direct a stream of fluid over the area. Iodine solutions such as Betadine work well but must be diluted. Mix 1 part iodine to 10 or more parts sterile saline.

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Cameron Baby Lola Lucky Cherub Shalome PrettiBird Glory

Bird Profile

I am only one, but I am one.
I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do.
--Edward Everett Hale

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If you must cripple a creature to keep it, perhaps you should reconsider its suitability as a pet.
We must never forget the one who inspired me... my precious Baby!

Yes!
If I ever get a bite from Zoe ... or in the past Tootie ...
Zoe isn't really that powdery ... Tootie was.
Some of the others birds bites sting a little, but not as badly.
I've often wondered if it isn't some natural defense mechanism they have in the wild ?

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Dana
If you can't bite the one you want ~ Bite the one you're with!
Nelson, Zoe & Woody DooLittle, Fugllen Tommi & LF and Raleigh
Nelson & Gang's Bird Profile

Recently I must have gotten carried away with grating and decided to add a little skin to the cheese. One of the knuckles got really infected.
When I saw this topic I thought I would add a possible reason that some of us attribute infection at the site of a bird bite to bacteria in the bird's mouth. I think it's what we do with the hands, fingers, etc, and what they come into contact with AFTER the bite. Luckily, after a week of infection in that finger of mine, I figured it out. I was reinfecting myself every morning when I used my dental floss. I wrap the floss around the finger and then rewrap for the next tooth. Human's mouth bacteria. No wonder it got so bad. My advice is if you get an infection at the site of a bird bite, think about what may be the cause, rather than it being from the bird's mouth. Thank you for the advice Peggy on the saline solution. I, of course, was using hydrogen peroxide, and over the counter neosporin.

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Debby
Willie - now think he is probably a she
Phoebe - dna'd female

Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts.” Winston Churchill

Thanks Peggy. Guess if anyone has been bitten by lots of beaks (and everything else) it would be you

If I remember correctly Skye also talked about peroxide when Bev was asking about first aid kits. I confess I still use it for things like torn hangnails because it seems to dry out the wound better. Though clipping them so they don't snag would be the thing to do..........LOL

You can get preservative free sterile saline in a pressurized can that comes out in a stream. It's in the contact lens section of Walmart, etc. That's what I use to put in Doc's nebulizer because there is less chance of contamination of the tip the saline comes out of and because it's free of preservatives that may or may not be harmful to her. It has a pretty long shelf life so you can keep it in the first aid kit for a few years.

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x 4

Previous discussion on peroxide that was had

http://secondchancebirds.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1238

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Cockatoos are not obedient. No to a Cockatoo means try again later.

"Some say they don't believe that angels can be seen or heard.
What a shame, such blindness. What a pity, such deafness. When the Song of songs abounds and Heaven's flyers are all around only thinly disguised as birds"

Unseen they suffer ~ Unheard they cry ~ In agony they linger ~ In loneliness they die

Hi There: my name is mousesurfer. I am a registered user with ForumsMaster. I'm new to this site but noticed your forum/website when looking for information on my infection from a bite I received from Tarzan, my Gren Cheeked Conure (on my left baby toe). I have now been on oral antibiotics as well as IV antibiotics since June 9th/09. It is now just starting to heal but is stil very red and swollen and they are still concerend that there maybe bone infection? If that's the case I understand I could be on IV antibiotics for 6wks therapy. So I am still on a heavy duty oral antibiotics for 10 days. I'm hoping this does the trick - I'm sure it will. Just thought I would update you. on Bird bites.

I have to add that Tarzan did not mean to do this. He thought we were playing a game and he just got a little rough. No harm came to him and I love him just as much as I did before this happend. I just tend to watch him alittle closer from sneaking up on me while out of his cage. We still play as much & he still gets his lovings as much.

Thanks much & have a great weekend

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With a Broken Wing and a Dream, You oughta see Him Fly!
Now I lay me down to sleep, to dream of a home that I may keep.
Bo-Innocent & Brave ((((Diamond))))

Sonoma Spike Sadie Opus Kaiser Timmy Reagan

Bird Profile

Mousesurfer,

Welcome to Second Chance Birds! I hope we hear more about Tarzan and yourself soon.

It's nice to hear you didn't take the bite personally, too many people do. Prayers and healing thoughts being sent your way.

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Sondra,owned by...
Powder- - Poncho- - Momma - - Higgins- - Max-

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly!
Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably .
And never regret anything that made you smile

Hello and welcome.

I have a blue crowned conure named Bodie and he keeps his beak razor sharp. It can really tear the tissue. He only has one leg, so I get bit every time I take him out of his cage. He has to use his beak to hold on to me and then hop up on my hand or finger to step up. Once in a great while, he will drop into my hand, or let me body lift him, but mostly he grabs for my skin to step up. I have never gotten an infection from his bites, and he has been biting me for 5 or 6 years. I had his beak clipped about a month ago, but he has honed it sharp again.

What I do is wash the area with an anti-bacterial soap and let clear water rinse the area thoroughly for quite a while, then pat with a clean towel and let dry. If it's deep enough to really bleed, I make sure it is dry with sterile pads then use surgical paper tape to hold it closed.

The only really bad bite I've ever had was from my amazon Zach, when she was 9 months old. She ripped the back of my hand open to the bone and tendons. After I got the bleeding stopped, and the strip of flesh layered back down, I taped it closed and never got an infection.

I am so sorry your conure injured you so severely. Please stay with us and tell us about Tarzan.

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Kay, gram to Bodie and Zach

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Cockatoos are not obedient. No to a Cockatoo means try again later.

"Some say they don't believe that angels can be seen or heard.
What a shame, such blindness. What a pity, such deafness. When the Song of songs abounds and Heaven's flyers are all around only thinly disguised as birds"

Unseen they suffer ~ Unheard they cry ~ In agony they linger ~ In loneliness they die

Welcome, and I agree with what else has been said. Tarzan is lucky to have you as part of his flock.

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Duckie Jocko Petey
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

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Owned by LSC2 Miss Jackson, WF Spooky & WFCP the Nibbler

"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." ~ Anatole France
“Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

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If you must cripple a creature to keep it, perhaps you should reconsider its suitability as a pet.
We must never forget the one who inspired me... my precious Baby!

Mousesurfer here: Just wanted to say Thank you for all your wonderful comments. I'm overwhelmed by all the reponses I got. Tarzan has his moments as does a child but is one of the family and always will be. He says Thank you for showing your support for him as well, I know he appreciates it. He has not left my side since all this has happend and he's been mostly and angel .

Chat again soon.

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We are too close to ourselves, much of the time, to see our proper relation to the natural world, on which we depend for survival. Watching birds and other animals seems to clarify my perspective. Roger Tory Peterson

I just saw this thread last night and thought that I'd add my two cents.

First, with me wearing my hat as "human physician", animal bites pose a risk of infection for two reasons. The first reason has to do with the injury itself. The second reason has to do with the resident bacteria that exist in the biter's mouth.

With me wearing my hat as "wildlife/zoo vet", I'd add that parrot's beaks aren't known to carry very many - if any - nasty-to-humans bacterial species. Other birds might be of more concern (for example, raptors/vultures shortly after they eat or if they regurgitate prior to the bite), but they aren't considered "worse" as a rule compared to other species.

In terms of the injury itself, puncture wounds (particularly deep puncture wounds) and wounds that cause a good deal of devitalized tissue are at higher risk for infection regardless of what animal bit you. Deep puncture wounds send surface bacteria (that the person already had on their skin) deep into the tissues where there is less chance of cleansing (by bleeding, or by subsequent washing) and more chance of those bacteria "setting up shop" deep in the wound and causing infection. Wounds that have a lot of devitalized tissue (e.g., crush wounds, shake wounds, etc, such as those from an aggressive dog bite) set up a similar milieu for infection, plus these wounds add the extra ingredient of providing lots of dead/dying tissue for the bacteria to colonize.

In terms of the resident bacteria in the biter's mouth, bites from certain species are known to have higher rates of wound infections compared to other species. Cat bites are one example because they can carry Pasteurella in their mouths. The combination of the puncture effect (which drives the bacteria deep in the tissue) along with Pasteurella makes a cat bite higher risk for wound infection (however, NOT all cat bite infections are caused by Pasteurella - some are caused by Staphylococcus aureas from the person's skin). Another good example of a species whose bite is more likely to result in wound infection are bites from other humans.

Birds - parrots, specifically - are not in general considered to be high-risk bites. There aren't "resident bacteria" in bird's mouths or on their beaks that are particularly concerning for the average, nonimmunocompromised person. HOWEVER, if the bite is very deep, hits bone, and/or results in lots of devitalized tissue, that wound IS higher risk for wound infection because of the wound itself.

It would not be considered customary to put a person on prophylactic antibiotics after a parrot bite if they were seen in the Emergency Department. However, they'd be told the usual things to watch for re: infection, and to return right away for recheck if any signs/symptoms of infection developed.

As far as first aid after a parrot bite, it's all pretty much standard first aid that would be given for any wound (bite or not):

1. Stop the bleeding (direct pressure).
2. Cleanse the area - use running tap water or copious saline if you have saline available (tap water, though, is fine). DO NOT USE ANTISEPTICS to cleanse a wound. Antiseptics kill skin cells along with bacteria, and can cause more skin loss, longer time to healing, and, in some cases, can inadvertently set you up for delayed wound infections.
3. Dress the area using an antibiotic gel or cream, and a suitable dressing.
4. Seek medical advice if the bleeding won't stop, if the bite involves a joint or goes into bone (often these types of wounds are treated prophylactically with antibiotics regardless of what species caused the bite), if the bite involves an important body part (lips, eyes/eyelids, etc.), or if the bite is extensive, devitalized, significantly or deeply contaminated with dirt/debris (so it would need to be flushed more extensively, and possibly debrided), or if your tetanus vaccination status is outdated or unknown.
5. Tetanus boosters are needed if you haven't had a Td booster in the last 10 yrs (for superficial wounds), the last 5 yrs (for deep/extensive wounds), or if you cannot remember. Tetanus spores are NOT transmitted by animal bites (or human bites), but they ARE ubiquitous in the environment. All they need is a port of entry - like broken skin - to cause disease. Nowadays, tetanus, although quite uncommon, tend to occur more often in people who suffer less extensive wounds and do not seek medical help to update their Td status, rather than in people with extensive wounds who do go to the ER (and get Td updated if it wasn't already up to date).

It sounds like "mousesurfer's" experience with a post-parrot-bite wound infection was most likely caused by Staph (or Strep) that was on his/her own skin and was driven deep into the bite, rather than from a bacteria that wound have been on the parrot's beak. Of course, it's impossible to prove this in retrospect, but that's what is most likely.

A final (repeat) note about using hydrogen peroxide (or other "disinfectants") to clean skin wounds. In a word: DON'T! It is very hard on skin cells and actually hinders healing (initially) rather than helping it. There are a couple of exceptions to this. If you use the standard concentration of peroxide available over the counter (3%) and dilute it to half-strength using saline or water, then it's ok. BUT, it's not necessary. Nor is it necessary for all wounds to use dilute povidone-iodine (1:10 strength, which is tissue-friendly). Copious irrigatation with saline or tap water does a better job than peroxide or other cleansers. Just clean it out well under the tap, use a gel/cream antiobiotic (polysporin, for example), and keep it covered initially. EXCEPTIONS to the above are for extensive/contaminated wounds in which we DO find it helpful to use 1:10 povidone-iodine solution to cleanse -- but this is done in the ER along with debriding the really contaminated bits (i.e., cutting them away), so it's not necessary for your average, "treat-at-home" wound.

Hope that helps!

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Deanna & the gang

Kanzi (TAG), Dhunni (TAG), Moki (BFA), Baliza (YCA)
Brodyn, Brexton & Berewic (Border Collie);
Gracie, Ocean & Ben (Great Danes)
Frastis (Siamese cat), Jet (Friesian-cross gelding);
and da Fish!

In memory:
BK (Border Collie: 1993-2008), Dodger (Great Dane: 2000-2008),
Tabi (Siamese X: ~1988-2006), Maliik (CAG: 2003-2005)